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Editorial: Who deserves wealth, taxes?
Published Wednesday, December 3, 2008
We have heard on more than one occasion someone describe President-elect Barack Obama’s intent to increases taxes for the wealthiest Americans and give tax breaks to the middle class as redistributing money to the “undeserving.”
What does that mean? Who truly is and is not undeserving?
Sure, there are some wealthy people who have worked hard to get where they are today. Most of those types of wealthy men and women know better than the others what it is like to be without wealth. There are two kinds of these nevue riche (newly rich) people. The kind who realize they were fortunate and want to give back, and the kind who go around flaunting their wealth with big mansions, fancy cars and hot air talk.
But if you look at most of the wealthiest of Americans, they don’t live or think that way because they were born with silver spoons in their mouths. It’s a lot easier to make money when you can start out with a large sum of capital. They have names like Walton, Cargill, Rockefeller, Hearst, Mariott.
Most have used their wealth to gain greater wealth, which is great, but how can anyone determine how of that is “deserved” and how much is simply done on the backs of middle-class workers, foreign labor or simply the brilliance of good employees?
Does a middle manager who works long hours away from the family to put bread on the table for the spouse and children deserve a greater tax burden or does the company owner who reaps the profits, gets to spend every night with the family and can take vacations at the drop of hat?
Are CEOs, even the ones who sent their companies into the tank and still received massive bonuses, more deserving of a tax break than ordinary folks trying to get from paycheck to paycheck in a penny-pinching economy?
Pundits need to think again when they call the poor and middle class “undeserving.” Not everyone started from the same starting line in life. Just because a person makes more money doesn’t mean they worked harder for it than the next guy. They just like to think they did.
Comments
Posted by scurvydog (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Nouveau riche" - not "nevue riche" - unless there's a newer, more accepted spelling.
Posted by JDa7292347 (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am consistently amazed by the prejudice and misconception regarding the hours of labor required in first gaining, and then maintaining "wealth." For too long the labor movement in this country has spoon fed jealousy and hatred toward management. There was a time, granted, when unions served a useful and beneficial service; i.e., protecting workers from unsafe conditions, bringing numbers of workers together to influence wages and terms of employment. Then the government stepped in and with OSHA, the Fair Labor Standards Act, the National Labor Relations Board, the FTC, the EPA, the EEOC, an entire Labor Department, the usefulness of the unions has now become a front for funneling the dues and fees it collects not to its members but to political causes. Nonetheless, if you labor, no pun intended, under the misconception that an owner goes home at 5:00 and retires to his pipe and slippers, and then can summon his family at the "drop of a hat" for a vacation, then you have no idea of the concept of management. It means more work than being on the line. It means overseeing the day to day operations, ensuring that all of the regulations are complied with, that the workers are duly informed of their rights, that product is safe, that the books are kept, that a profit is made in order meet payroll, that the contracts for insurance and other benefits are current and offer required coverage. If you think management means an easy life, well guess again. When you reach management, you will work harder and more nonstop than you have ever experienced. But that is the greatness of America. That a line worker can work and improve his lot and if he chooses, own his own company some day. That is the real beauty of individualism and capitalism. So cast aside your assumptions and petty jealousies. If, like me, you and your husband have worked for 38 years and still we have not taken a single vacation, then come and complain about how wealth is defined and maintained. Oh, and by the way, if we had not had our wealth to create jobs, then the next guy would not have gained the experience to succeed either. We consider our wealth a way to "pass on the American Dream."
Posted by NoDFL (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
JDa7292347,
Very well said. The business owner is the backbone of the American economy. Thank you and thanks to all who take the risk to create the jobs. Wish Americans would wake up and see we are killing the American Dream.
Posted by Disgusted (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obviously there is a reason for not mentioning the name Kennedy with the other names listed above.
Posted by outoftownlandlord (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Spoken (written) like someone who has never created a job or started a business. Why do you attack the people who take the risk? This is a great story to prove that socialism is alive and well in Minnesota and in Albert Lea.
Why do you have a right to my money? Why does any government body have a right to my money. You show just why the once great American economy is on life support. When you remove incentives you make it so no one wants to improve. You get what you want a welfare state. You don't (and won't) ever understand economics, incentives, or what it is like to create. This article is what is wrong with the press and why our country is becoming more divided daily.
Posted by Truthbetold (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Businesses are repeatedly asked for donations from this group and that group all year long. Where would these organizations be without businesses. And as far as rich people go, many are very, very giving and do pay taxes. I think some people think that the rich don't pay taxes... they do get socked for big taxes too. However if we tax them too much, then they won't reinvest in their companies and in the stock market and we know where that goes now, don't we?!
Posted by newyankee (anonymous) on December 3, 2008 at 10:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From my understanding most of America's richest people were not born into great wealth, but that does not matter. Just go look at the Forbes list yourself. Also look at the IRS website. Roughly half of us are paying taxes. The rich pay the most. So when Barack Hussein Obama talks about a tax break for 95 percent of Americans, he is talking about giving money to someone who does not pay income taxes or pays very little. Just look back to the tax refund checks in MN here a few years ago. We were giving part of the refund to people that did not pay taxes.
Class envy and other tired old Democrat socialist cliches about the rich and the poor would be funny if they were not so dangerous. Also why am I supposed to accept the notion that the government is entitled to my money and they are not spending too much already?
Posted by brokewhitegirl (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 12:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
newyankee,
What you said just made me think of my sister in law. Last year both my husband and I held jobs, paid are taxes, and took care of ourselves. We paid a few grand in taxes, and didn't get a single cent in return. Then you have my sister in law, a 20 year old, twice divorced, 2 children by 2 different dads, neither of them her husbands, hasn't held a job for longer then a month, doesn't take care of her children, because cigarettes and mt. dew are more important then keeping food in the house, and she gets a couple grand in tax returns, between her child credit and other things. Plus she gets rent assistance, food stamps, free health care. All of which are paid with my and yours taxes, just because she rather go party then go to work.
Posted by leftys2221 (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why is it so bad and called socialism when the middle class gets a tax break but when the richer people get one it is called an open market and the American Dream....?
Posted by leftys2221 (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I cant believe people defend the fact that the pay differences for some CEOs to average employees is 300 to 1. That is why we are in the position we are in now with the economy.
Posted by outoftownlandlord (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
leftys2221,
You are truly lost if you think socialism works. People are paid what they deserve. It is called economic freedom. If you don't like what you make than get a better different job. No one makes you poor or rich. It is your choice.
Posted by leftys2221 (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don’t think socialism works, a person should be paid for the work that they do, but some of these salaries are insane. The whole "no one makes you rich or poor but yourself" argument is a dream, I don’t know about you but I live in reality. A reality where there are bills every month and food costs. Saying that the CEO of a company deserves to make 300 times as much as the average employee is just flat out dumb. There is no doubt that they deserve to make more and quite a bit more at that, based on their performance, but not 300 times. They also get these big severance packages when they run a company into the ground when the average employee just loses their job and their retirement.
Please answer me to why when the middle class gets a tax break it is socialism but when the rich get one it is capitalism. I just don’t see how the door doesn’t swing both ways. This argument about hoping for a break to better your life being un-American in some way is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Everyone has gotten a break here or there. The people that say these things just do not want other people to be able to better their life so that they can continue to control them and look down at them.
Posted by outoftownlandlord (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't think anyone should have to pay taxes but I know we do need some for roads and defence but that is it. The government is to large. It is involved in way to much in our lives.
The CEOs get what their stockholders feel they should get. If you have a 401K or a pension you own stock and have a right to speak up and say they do not deserve it. When you say we should limit what they make you take away incentive. The concept of incentive keeps you and I going to work or starting a business that creates jobs.
In American we have Economic freedom which we value more than economic security. You can't have both there has to be trade offs. But I am sure you know all about this because I can tell you must have at least one degree in economics lefty because you make statements as if they are fact.
I hope you never get your way because with out economic freedom and incentives there will be no one to pay the taxes to support the 60% who don't pay anything.
Posted by NoDFL (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
leftys,
Here is a new idea. Cut taxes on everyone. No one should be taxed. Keep what you make. Now there are things like fire, police, defence etc that must be covered but that can come from sales tax or property taxes not income taxes.
I think you will find most of your income taxes go to support those who do not pay taxes. So weather you are rich or middle class you should not pay taxes.
Your rant about CEO is not socialism. It is communism. You want a centeral authority to tell you what you are worth. This is class warfare. It is straight out of the left's handbook. Attack the rich and make everyone dependant of the government. No thanks I like my rights.
Posted by Truth (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
leftys2221,
I am one of the down and outers you keep trying to help. Everytime the government comes to help I lose more money and more of my personal freedom. Please for the love of God stop having the government save me. It is killing me. I don't need Mr. Obama to buy my vote I just need them to stay out of the way. Also you union idiots are going to cost me a job with this card check rule please stop before we are all on welfare.
Posted by newyankee (anonymous) on December 4, 2008 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is the sense of entitlement that is the issue here. I think it is truly sad that we are now at a point when such a large group feel entitled to other peoples money. When any one gets a tax cut that is a good thing. When government taxes one citizen and gives that money to someone else, it is redistribution of wealth.
It is also sad that the press does not seem interested in providing this information in its covering government. Just look at any story about the local school district finances. The press was given it freedom to keep an eye on government and inform the public. It seems that unless you are interested in the latest movie star, you need to find your information from alternative sources. Go to the IRS website and Minnesota's....It takes a lot of work to be an informed citizen. Do not rely on anyone else for your beak, especially government. Go make it yourself.
Posted by leftys2221 (anonymous) on December 5, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No taxes, good idea but the roads would be horrible and schools would close, unless everything became private. Just look down in the south.
I dont want a central authority to tell me what I am worth. I just dont think that anyone is worth 300 times as much as someone else.
Posted by Truth (anonymous) on December 5, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
leftys2221,
I think everyone said roads schools and police/fire should be funded but you have to be nuts to think these are the largest part of the city, state or federal budgets. The entitlment programs are the largest part of the budgets.
You can think CEO don't deserve it but the people paying them do. When you start to think you know what is best for others than you head down that slope of socialism and or communism. If the worker was risking as much as the owner than sure they should get more but most workers do not risk anything that is why we are still workers.
We can not start growing unless we stop taking from everyone.
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