Christians need to care for unborn and born

Posted by JC (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is it that so many people think that a "perfect world" is one where personal choice and responsibility is abolished? Can alcohol cause auto deaths and family stress? Sure, and so can being overly tired, but we don't make it a law that everyone gets eight hours of sleep a night. Drinking and driving is irresponsible - alcohol is not the cause, the decision to drive while drunk is the cause. For every alcoholic that cannot manage his drinking, there are many others who drink responsibly, only socially, and don't drive. Prohibition works for nothing - it's in direct opposition to our freedom of choice.

And when has life become so inherently valuable? It's a religious construct really - as soon as people started to believe (falsely) that everyone has some divine purpose to be here, we traveled quickly down the slippery slope with our eyes shut, assuming that life always has value. Nature, and our own bodies (via miscarriage) shows us that all life is not valuable. Value does not lie in the mere existence of life, it lies in the what we make of it once we are here. It is, and should be a woman's choice whether the "life" inside her should be brought into the world. That decision is based on numerous things, different for every woman of course. It should not be made for her by another who is under the delusion of divine purpose. I have yet to hear of one good reason why a woman should not have the choice to decide for herself.

We already have too many people in the world, and are heading quickly to over population. Nature will resolve it one way or another. Instead of concentrating on bringing every life into the world that we possibly can, we should encourage people to limit the amount of children they have to 1 child per person (2 per couple). Maybe that way we can head off what appears to be inevitable at this point. Eventually we will have too many people on this planet, and not enough resources to improve our quality of life - we are already seeing it in some third world countries.

I do agree on health insurance - it's a shame that a country as advanced as ours cannot make this happen. Not too surprising though - we can't even get a working county-wide voting system in place.

Posted by Pierre (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Very well stated Eloise. The feeling of being "unwanted" or "a mistake"is a hardship so burdening that is causes heartache, feelings of worthlessness and undesirable and unintended feelings and actions. We all like to picture every baby born into this world with an ideal family and positive influences. Sadly, more often than not, this is not the world that a person "forced" into this decision brings a child into. More effort should go into education and adoption than this hateful abortion fight that seperates families, political parties and our country.

Posted by wingo (anonymous) on November 4, 2008 at 6:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Boy JC, are you a hard egg. You must not have any feelings for these babies that are put to death by partial birth abortion. Some women find it too EASY to get an abortion than to take responsibility for preventing the pregancy in the first place. It takes two and more precautions should be taken.

Posted by trifid (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 12:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Amazing! Someone on the forum with some intelligence and imagination....and perspective.

Nice work, JC !

Posted by mgoodmanson (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The abortion topic is a fine example which displays the hypocrisy of Conservatives. They will fight for the right of the fetus...unless that fetus is gay.

Posted by mgoodmanson (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wish I was joking, and I am sure its not the most ignorant statement on the AL Tribune, I have read many of your posts (cheap shot, I apologize).

I would love to be proven wrong, so I will give you the opportunity to do so. If you can provide me evidence that Conservatives support and defend gay/lesbian rights as much as their own missionary position (symbolism and sarcasim there...a two-fer), I will retract my statement.

Posted by crazym (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 8:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mgoodmanson is right. Conservatives are taking away the rights of gay/lesbian community. In Arkansas, voters have now taken away the right for gay & lebian couples to adopt or foster children.

Posted by mrthunder (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hay wait. i would like a say. how come the man has no say.. it takes two. and personal if i got a women pregnant. no she would not have an abortion. that child is half mine. and i would want it.

Posted by mrthunder (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry if you are gay. you should not be aloud to have kids. there would be to much of a mental problem with the child growing up. like who is mom and dad. then you have the other kids. messing with the child

Posted by mgoodmanson (anonymous) on November 5, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think Virginian's comments are probably more applicable to mrthunder posts than mine.

Posted by JC (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Response to Wingo: Partial birth abortion is a different subject completely - in a vast majority of cases, it is done under a doctor's recommendation because there is a severe deformity, or the mother's life is in danger.

Response to Virginian: I never said that precaution shouldn't be a top priority of someone having sex - but let's face it, in the real world things go wrong. It sounds like you are implying that if two people have sex, and she accidentally gets pregnant, that they should, by law, alter their own lives to raise a child that is not really wanted in the first place. Sounds like a great environment for the child! Should we force the couple to get married as well? They probably won't like that, so we better make sure it's illegal for them to get divorced as well right? I don't see the common sense in punishing two adults and bringing an unwanted child into the world by forcing them to make a certain choice.

Yes, my mother considered abortion - she was young and my father was a loser. It was legal to have an abortion at the time, but her family was religious, and forced my parents together, and to have me. Worked out well - he split right after she gave birth. She tried to raise me on her own, missed going to college because of me. When I was three she realized she could no longer give me a good life, and put me up for adoption. My adopted brother had it worse - when he came to us at 6 months, he was clearly abused. The mom decided she wanted him back because she thought she could get child support. She won, but when we got him back 6 months later, he was bruised and malnourished. He still has a scar on his forehead, not to mention the ones inside that have kept him from having a normal life.

Some would say I proved the point for pro-life just because I exist. But we were talking about value. I feel lucky to be alive - Sometimes. Especially considering that of all the possible DNA combination, only a minute fraction of individual people that could exist will ever be born. Should both of our parents have aborted - probably yes. Neither of us have, or probably ever will provide "value" to society.

Posted by headscratcher (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Take that virginian!

Posted by wingo (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JC, I don't know where you have been hiding your head, that is not true. Many of the pba's are done because the woman simply doesn't want the baby.

As far as fighting for a fetus if it is gay, that's a cop out. I don't agree with the gays choice of life style, but I would never want them killed or beaten.

The fact remains that abortion is wrong and if it isn't a person should not be charged with double homicide if a person kills a pregnant woman. Too many double standards in our court systems.

Posted by mgoodmanson (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

[Virginian] I will try to elaborate in simpler terms.

Conservatives dont beleive in a womans right to choose because of ideollogy that each fetus has basic human rights. Child grows up gay/lesbian, and then instantaneously, these basic human rights that you enjoy (right to adopt, marry, health benefits etc.) suddenly become unobtainable.

You seem to belive this is not the case. I will offer another opportunity to disprove me. Although, by your previous statement, it sounds as if you are unable and would prefer to hide behind the veil of hypocrisy.

My statement still stands.

Posted by mgoodmanson (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

[Wingo] It is not fact that abortion is wrong, only your opinion.

I would suggest using more caution when speaking is such absolutes. It tends to associate you with company you would probably not want to share.

Posted by JC (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wingo: "abortion is wrong" is not a fact. It's an opinion.

PBA is a huge topic I don't even care to spend a lot of time on. Statistically, I can find numbers supporting both sides of the argument. When it comes down to it, PBA draws a line in the the sand - what is acceptable before and after the line (the line being a point of time during pregnancy) may change. I haven't done enough research to determine where the line should be - I'd leave that up to the medical community.

Personally, I believe there probably should be a line somewhere - where one side says no abortion unless it is medical, or result of rape, etc, and on the other side, women have free choice. My main argument is against those that say all abortion is wrong period, and that a woman shouldn't have a choice in the matter. I also have a huge problem with people using religious rhetoric to support an argument. The argument against PBA doesn't seem to apply to the pre-PBA time line, so it does become a messy discussion doesn't it?

Don't hold your breath on double standards - they will always exist. Maybe in this case it has something to do with the removal of choice - i.e, a mother has the right, and choice to abort at 3 weeks, but the killer killed a mother, and a baby that she intended to bring into the world. I don't feel there is to hard a punishment for someone who commits murder without just cause, and if using a double standard, even a really bad one, puts them away for longer, then so be it.

Posted by wingo (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, my opinion is any type of MURDER is wrong, oh, excuse me, I guess it's okay to murder someone. Hope you never lose a child to ANYTHING.

Posted by joetaxpayerpayerpayerpayer (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I challenge you to watch a short video about abortion. This will give you some insight into what the pro-lifers are thinking and why.

I hope to hear some feedback here.

http://www.durarealidad.com/

Posted by JC (anonymous) on November 6, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Virginian:

I agree - "Common sense tells me that if a couple has sex they should take precautions, nothing more nothing less."

A couple can take precaution - but there is nothing that is 100% preventative. (well, except a snip, or tube tie I guess). If someone takes a precaution, and say, a condom breaks, then what you have is what I call an accident. You can do the following if you don't want it: 1. abort. 2. Have the baby and put up for adoption, or 3. Raise it even thought you don't want it.

Each option has negative and positive results, and I don't personally believe that any person should be forced into making any of these choice, especially in the early stages of pregnancy.

I hate to have to tell you this, but we are, in fact, animals. Evolution is the process of our brain and body adapting - think of it like layers being added to our brain. The main function of our brain is to make sure our body is taken care of (eat, breathe, etc). Procreation was necessary (sex), and so is rest (sleep). Everything in our brains after those functions evolved to adapt to our surroundings. It seems to me that eating, sleep, and sex are still what the average person thinks about the most on a given day. Our evolutionary blessing (or curse, depending on how you look at it), is that our brain has evolved in a way that allows us to also do much more then that.

Thanks for the lively discussion - it's time for me to eat dinner, have sex with my wife if she is willing, lol, and go to bed.

Posted by rdubb (anonymous) on November 7, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, we need mgoodmanson to post more often. He put some embarrassing burns to Virginian.

Posted by trifid (anonymous) on November 14, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"It seems to me that eating, sleep, and sex are still what the average person thinks about the most on a given day."

Not Virginian. Virgi thinks of McSame/Falin awake and in dream.